Donor Moms & Dads
This podcast explores the experiences of past egg and sperm donors. The host is Shaun Murphy-Lopez, who is a donor dad. He was known as Donor ID #1407 by Croygenic Laboratories in Roseville, MN, now owned by Fairfax Cryobank: https://fairfaxcryobank.com/
Donor Moms & Dads
Tracy from Washington State
Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.
I met Tracy on the private Donor Sibling Registry Group on Facebook, which may be of interest to everyone in the donor community.
Tracy's donor number is 315 and she was an egg donor at Pacific Northwest Fertility in Seattle.
Credit for background music goes to Dye O (and to my husband for picking out the song): https://music.youtube.com/channel/UCVMwu8OTZGR-NgRPdW9YcBg
Welcome to Donor Moms and Dads, a podcast that explores the world of egg and sperm donors who gave life to donor-conceived people. My name is Sean Murphy Lopez, and I'm the host of Donor Moms and Dads. In 1999, I walked into a sperm bank and made my first donation. Two decades later, my 20-year-old biological son reached out to meet me. What does it mean to be the father of a child you helped create, but may have had no contact with until years later? In this podcast, we'll learn about everyday people who made an incredible choice in their younger adult years and are now navigating unprecedented modern relationships. Welcome to Donor Moms and Dads. How do you deal with feelings that you gave your children away? Tracy is a mom to five biological kids who she raised, but she is also the mom of two donor-conceived people who she wants to meet. As someone who recently uncovered her own DNA testing surprise due to a family secret, Tracy has gone through the process of re-examining her own identity. Now she is concerned about the identity of her donor-conceived children. Tracy, thank you for being the second egg donor to share your story on this podcast.
SPEAKER_00My name is Tracy Del Toro, and I'm from Tacoma, Washington.
SPEAKER_01Okay, so Tracy, do you want to go ahead and tell me the story of how you became an egg donor?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, so um back in 2004, I was watching a local program. It was like a local kind of a like a talk show. It's called like Northwest Afternoon. And I saw this young girl in her early 20s that was talking about an egg being an egg donor. And I'd never really heard about it. I'd, you know, known about sperm donation, but never really kind of knew that there was another way, you know, for women to actually help with fertility. And and so anyway, so I was watching her program and it really inspired me. She was young, she was in school, she had found a flyer and had decided to be an egg donor and help somebody that couldn't conceive to have a child. And at the time it really kind of hit me. I kind of a very spiritual person, not religious, but spiritual. And I started thinking about it. Um at the time I had one child, he was about two and a half years old, and he was an amazing, he was very intelligent, very bright, just artistic. I'm an artist. And so I just really kind of felt inspired. Like, you know, I was blessed with this amazing child and was kind of interested in it. So, long story short, I got married, you know, to my son's father, and then I had a daughter in 2005. I started thinking about it again. It kind of had never left me. It was just kind of like always in the back of my mind. And two sisters, I'm one of six kids. So um, there were three girls and three boys in my family, and my oldest sister and my youngest sister, they were had problems conceiving, they had had several miscarriages, and I kind of always felt like I was very lucky. I come from really big families. My mom was one of 11, I'm one of six, and I just kind of felt like I was kind of gifted with fertility. So when my daughter, so my daughter was born in 2005, and in about 2006, the beginning of 2006, I started thinking about it again, becoming an egg donor. And I found a local clinic in Seattle through the Swedish Medical Hospital called Pacific Northwest Fertility. Kind of looked around at different agencies, and I just thought, you know, this is kind of something I really wanted to do. So anyway, I went online, did a lot of information searching, was looking at what the process was, just kind of all about it. So I decided to go through this fertility clinic and I made an appointment and I went up there and and and had my first interview. Um, it was kind of like, you know, why do you want to do it? Why do you feel like you'd be a good candidate? I was really interested in it.
SPEAKER_01Remember that person you met with and I do how they treated you and what was that experience like?
SPEAKER_00It was a really beautiful clinic. She was amazing. She was really compassionate, empathetic. She was just a really lovely person. She wanted to know about my family history. And I was born and raised in the LDS church, the Mormon church, and I knew a lot about my family history, you know, from my mom's side and my dad's side. I just kind of knew my genetic background. I at least I thought I did. My health history was really positive. Kind of told her about, I just kind of felt like this is something that I felt like I'm I'm supposed to do. I wanted to help one couple have a child. I was only ever going to do it once. And she was just really, really warm, and I felt really comfortable with her. And we did our first interview. Um, and she said I'd be a great candidate. So then I did some paperwork. And so they ask a lot about but like family history, medical history, you know, personal history. They do like a psychological, make sure you know you're in the right mind to do something like this. And it was like kind of perfect almost. I went through that process, and so they built a profile. And what she had said is that couples, you know, they they had this giant book. I remember looking at this book, and it had didn't have any pictures, but it had people's profiles, and so like their their characteristics and whatnot. Well, I'm six foot, very tall, got dark hair, dark eyes, and I know what my family background was. And so a lot of times she said is that people look at your family history and your genetics, and they kind of want to match up. And so I thought it'd be perfect for somebody, but I didn't think much about it. So I had done the interview, did the paperwork.
SPEAKER_01Was that book other a book of other donors, or were they a book of recipient parents?
SPEAKER_00No, they were other donors. Clinic I went through, so we weren't allowed to know about the recipients, and so it was pretty much it was all anonymous. So it was a book of all the donors. She kind of showed me, you know, different profiles and kind of like with medical background, family history, uh, physical characteristics, and and so I was like, okay. And so my paperwork got put into this this book. It was it was in 2006, um, is when I actually started going through the the process. And so it wasn't a lot of it wasn't online. I think nowadays you can look at profiles online, but that kind of wasn't the case back then. It was all paperwork, and so I was kind of intrigued by it, but I didn't think much about it. You know, she said sometimes it takes a couple months, sometimes it takes a year. You know, what happens is the recipient actually picks you. So they they look at your profile and they said, Okay, I like this recipient. This is who I would like to be my egg donor. And then I actually got a call a couple weeks later, and she said that that I had a match. It was a couple, she she told me a little bit about the recipients, but she said that it was a couple that was in local, like in Seattle-ish area. They were in their 40s, they had tried to have kids for two years or for 10 years, sorry, 10 years, and they were unable to conceive, and they decided they really would like me as the recipient. And so that she wanted me to come in and do blood work, physical kind of exam, more of that. And so I came in, I met with the same lady. I always met with the same woman at the clinic, and she was she was really wonderful.
SPEAKER_01And were you excited? I mean, did you feel like um someone had had like chosen?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it was pretty exciting. Yeah, it was pretty exciting because you know, and at first it was like, you know, I thought, oh, this could happen in a year, it was no big deal. It was never about the money, it was always about helping somebody have a baby. I I like I said, it's always felt like I was blessed, you know. I always felt like I could help somebody else, and so that's just kind of what it was. And so when it when it happened, I was kind of shocked because it was so soon. Um I was like, okay, you know, and so um I had two small kids at at the time, I was a stay-at-home mom, and so I had to kind of try to fit this in my schedule because because you have to go in quite a bit. Um, so Tacoma is about 35, 40 minutes away from Seattle. So I'd have to commute, I'd have to, you know, make sure somebody had my kids, and and so you know, I had to commit to this schedule, and I decided to do it.
SPEAKER_01Did you say you were married to yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00So I was married, yeah. So I was married at the time. I kind of originally when I had found out about it, I had told them, you know, when I first saw that first talk show or whatever, I kind of said, Oh my gosh, I think this is something I really want to do. And he's like, Are you sure? And I was like, Yeah, I just think this is something that's really kind of pulling up my heartstrings. I really feel like this is something I really want to do. And, you know, I'm really blessed. I come from this family that has crazy fertility. You know, my my grandma had 11 kids, my mom had six, and you know, I just felt like I was, you know, able, I was given this blessing that I could help somebody else. And he said, Okay, you know, because originally I was just ever gonna do it one time. Um, and so I talked to him about I said, Hey, I got selected, they really want me to come in in two weeks and you know, start the process. And he was okay about it, he was fine.
SPEAKER_01He didn't share any concerns.
SPEAKER_00Well, at first, he's like, Are you sure? You know, because he my husband at the time, he had been married before, um, and he had three kids. He was like, you know, you're gonna have children that are out there, and you know, they're gonna be you're gonna be like their mom. I'm like, no, it's not like that. You know, in my mind, I was like, no, I'm just helping somebody be blessed with the baby. I didn't really, in my mind at the time, it was probably in my mid-20s, I didn't think it was like my child, it was just something that I wanted to do to help somebody else. Looking back now, I think he was more right, he was right more than anything. I think I was a little naive at the situation. So with the first couple though, it was really neat because when I'd go in and do my blood work, they mirror you up with the recipient. So it there was no frozen eggs at the time, there was no frozen embryos. Um back in 2006, everything was fresh. Um, and so your cycle had to match up with the recipient cycle. So I had to go in and make sure, you know, my levels were the same as hers. And so I'd go in, they would go in, but they would never kind of match us up at the same time. I just remember going in, they gave me shots and they gave me this whole packet of things that this is what you're gonna do. And so I was kind of gung-ho about it. I was like, okay, this is great. There was monetary compensation, it was only four thousand dollars. And looking back now, for what I did giving life, I don't feel like that was adequate at the time, but it wasn't about money, like I said, at the time when I did it, got the shots, got started at home, started doing it, went to the clinic, they would test my blood. My recipient number was 315, and I just thought that was really cool. My brother had passed away, um, and his birthday was 316, and so I was like, Oh, this means something. You know, I'm all about like signs and meanings, and and so I was like, this is really cool. But the recipient couple was they were really open to tell me about these people. They would call me their angel, and so I'd go in to get my blood work done, you know, done to see where kind of my levels were, and they'd and she'd say, Oh, you know, your recipient came in today, and they just wanted to say, you know, to tell you that they are really thankful for you, and they call you your their angel, and it was just kind of like really inspiring. I felt really good about it. So I went home, started doing the shots. It's it's pretty painful, it's not easy, but you do it. When I went in for the egg retrieval itself, they put you on it under anesthesia, they do the retrieval, it takes about a half an hour, but afterwards it was really painful, it was not comfortable. I was a high donor, so my first egg donation, they took 33 eggs, and they said that was kind of unheard of. That was so many. Just I just chalked it up as well. It's because I come from these big families and we're able to have all these kids or whatever. And so all of my eggs were very high quality, and so they were really excited about it and they were really positive. I didn't find out about um egg donation. I didn't find out if it was a positive pregnancy, they didn't give out that kind of information back then, and I just thought, okay, this is great. I did my did the donation, I went home. It took me about four to five days to kind of recover from it. My ovaries were the size of grapefruits, so you could actually physically see my ovaries through my stomach. It was really, really uncomfortable because they pumped them up and pumped them up, and so it took me a while to kind of get over it. I had two, like I said, I had two small kids, and so it was really challenging, but I was really happy with what I had done.
SPEAKER_01Why did they swell up so much? Is that normal or everybody's different?
SPEAKER_00Some people, so they said some people can when they do the egg retrieval, they can give maybe 10 eggs and maybe five in each ovary, you know, because your body only makes one normally. Um, but with the the hormones and the stuff that they give you, they create these follicles in your ovaries that there's basically these kind of holes in your ovaries to kind of fill up with eggs or whatever. Well, my body just was like super responsive to it, and so my body produced 33.
SPEAKER_01Okay. So usually in each cycle for a woman, they produce one egg, and because of those shots that you are giving to yourself, that stimulates your body to give this incredible amount all at once.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, it creates these follicles in your ovaries, these holes or whatever. So it's so your body's able to produce more than just one egg. Like I said, some people they said the average people they would do 12 to 17, they would retrieve 12 to 17 eggs, but my body was super responsive. They said it's kind of highly unusual that you had this many, but that's great, you know, because then there's this many opportunities for this woman to have a baby.
SPEAKER_01She gets all the eggs, they don't like split the eggs up with various couples.
SPEAKER_00No, well, supposedly.
SPEAKER_01Okay, that's what they told you. That was your that's what they told me.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, supposedly. So, yeah, so she would get them all because it was a contract between me and this couple, so she would get all of the eggs. Um, but they didn't freeze them back then, so I think you know, I don't know how they did it. Um, I don't know if they implanted a couple, but I don't know exactly what had happened. And but I just kind of like just kind of let it go. It was like, okay, I did this, and they gave me the money at the same day they gave me a check when I left and I just kind of recovered, and you know, I was like, okay, this is done. This is, you know, I hope there's a baby, but at the same time, there really wasn't much more I could do. A couple months later, I get a call from the fertility clinic, and they said somebody else had picked my profile. And I was like, Oh, whoa, well, you know, I was only gonna do it once. I'm not really prepared to do it a second time. And then, like, well, you have this amazing ability to create these eggs. You have this, like, basically, I was like super fertile, they're very high quality eggs, and this couple matches with your genetics, basically in my family history, and they'd really like to choose me. And so I talked to my my husband and I said, Hey, you know, this is what happened. I got this phone call, they really want me to do it again. They're like, and he was like, Are you sure? He's like, Because it was really bad. I mean, like, he had to take care of the kids, and you know, I was in a lot of pain. And and I said, Well, you know, I had to think about it. So I thought about it for a couple weeks, and I thought, okay, I'll do it one more time. So I did it by the time that it so that was a couple months after it happened. So I think it by the time that all our all the blood work was done and I was lined up with the recipient as far as my cycle, I think it was about four months in. So about four months later, I did my second donation, and that was even worse. And so I had at that time I had developed, I think, 31 eggs. So my ovaries was just as big, they were the size of grapefruits. It was really uncomfortable. I had a lot of cramping.
SPEAKER_01Did you know anything about the recipient parents for the second time?
SPEAKER_00No, the second time they didn't give me any information. Well, the only thing they had told me is they were international, so it was somebody that wasn't from the United States, but my family history kind of matched theirs. They were also LDS, so Mormon. Um, I wasn't an active Mormon at the time. Uh I had left the church when I was 15, but because of my mom's side and my dad's side kind of goes back to the beginning of the church, back to New York in the 1800s, they really kind of wanted me as the recipient. So I said, okay.
SPEAKER_01And was that true? The first couple, too, were they LDS as well?
SPEAKER_00No, not at all.
SPEAKER_01Okay, so the second couple they were interested with in the LDS connection. Okay.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah. Like I said, I wasn't an active member. I did, you know, didn't go to church or whatever, but I said, okay, they were really interested in just me. Because the book, when I had they showed me the book, it was like so many people. I mean, it was massive. And so I was like, Well, you have all these recipients, like wow, they chose me. So I did it a second time. And then I said, Okay, this is it, no more. I'm not gonna do it again. You know, I was like, now I have two children in the world that I'll never know, but I've blessed two couples with babies, and I thought this was kind of where it was at. About six months later, I got a call from the fertility clinic, and I had made it known to them that I didn't want to do it a second time or a third time, but that this was very uncomfortable for me. It was very painful. I thought I was, you know, I was really happy for what I had done, but I just don't want to do it again. Well, they called me six months later and it was almost high pressure. They really pressured me. They had said, you know, there was this couple, she's six feet tall, she's got dark hair, dark eyes, just like you. She really wants to have a baby, and we think you're perfect. And I was like, Well, I really don't want to do this again, and kind of made it known. Well, I got a call about a week later from the clinic again, and they kind of, you know, said, Hey, really can't find a recipient that kind of matches you and her that are so perfect, and we'd really, really like you to do it again. And the monetary value never went up, it was always four thousand dollars. So I was kind of at that that kind of level at the time, you know, I decided maybe it was kind of a maybe, and I said I maybe, and I decided to do it kind of against my own gut instinct, was kind of nervous about it. So what happened was I suppose with the third one, this was the last one I had done, is when you go in to do the blood work, you know, to make sure that you're matched up with the recipient, they never want you two in the same waiting room ever. They they always do it a couple hours in between because they the recipient and it's completely anonymous, and so they didn't want you to kind of know the people or to kind of see the people. Well, one day I was in the clinic and waiting for my turn to go have my blood work done, and I saw this woman that was sitting across from me, and she was tall, thin, dark hair, dark eyes, and she just looked mean. She looked very angry, she looked mean, and I kept looking at her like, oh my gosh, I'm like, is this my recipient? The first two times I never kind of felt that way, but I just had this gut instinct, like, I think this is my recipient, and it just made me kind of sick to my stomach. And so I went through the process, I did the work, I did the donation, and in the back of my mind, I kept thinking, oh my gosh, I just gave one of my children to this woman, and she just looked really mean. And I'm like, oh my gosh. And so at that time, it was more like, this is my child, this isn't like an egg donation. And I'm like, now this my child is gonna be raised by this woman, and what if she's just really mean to this person, you know, or to my child or whatnot. And it just really kind of gave me a really bad taste in my mouth. And yeah, that was the last time I did it. I told the clinic I never wanted to do it again. It just and at that moment, so this was in 2007. I just felt really disheartened. Like, what did I do?
SPEAKER_01When you went in the first time, you said that person was really nice and you were working with them. When you basically got these sales pitches and the follow-up instances, was that the same person, or were there different people contacting you from the clinic? Or what do you remember about that?
SPEAKER_00It was always the same person. Yeah, it was always the same person, and she was really nice. But looking back, very much a salesperson, very much. Like they really she really said the things that she thought I'd want to hear, and and just kind of really kind of sold it. It just looking back, it it's kind of like she was really comforting, really warm, but at the same time, I just felt like it was like a business deal. And I I just felt really uncomfortable about that after the fact. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Were there things that she was saying to you that you look back and you're thinking now, oh, she was saying this because she knew I wanted to hear it. Was it anything beyond what you've already mentioned, or anything else stick out in your mind?
SPEAKER_00You know, yeah. Well, she just she just kind of really made me feel like I was a superhero. She was like, Well, your mom, you know, came from 11, your grandma had 11 kids, and she's so blessed. And she was able to help, you know, she was able to bring all this life into the world, and your mom had six kids, and and you have two, and and that, you know, that you're basically she kind of played on had the feeling that I had that I was I was gifted with this fertility, like this amazing fertility. Like my like I said, my sisters could not have children. She really kind of played on that, kind of played on my heartstrings, and and I felt like, okay, well, maybe I am special and maybe I need to do this. Maybe this is kind of one of the reasons why I'm born is to, you know, help children come into the world. And so she really kind of pumped me up with that. The kind of fears that I had. I I mean, I didn't really have fears, but it was just like the nervous. About, well, I'm gonna have other kids in the world and I'll never know them. And she's like, but you're giving life.
SPEAKER_01Wow. Yeah, it sounds like you were in a way, you were kind of mature about that. You had an understanding of what was to come in a way, and she really tried to talk you out of that.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Yeah. So, like I said, my mom came from 11 kids. She's the second oldest. And I, you know, I always thought my mom looked like my grandpa. Well, in about 2017, I decided to do my DNA. So I did ancestry.com and I was like, oh, I just kind of want to see where all my you know DNA comes from. Because, like I said, as I was part of the Mormon church and the genealogy had been done, the paper documents had been done. Like I knew where I had come from from like the 1600s on one side and the 1200s on the other side. And so I just kind of wanted to see what my genetic breakup was. And so I did my DNA through ancestry. It came up that I was part Jewish. And I was like, what? I was like, there's no way I'm Jewish. Because, you know, I thought I knew where my family history had come from. And I started researching some of the people that were my matches, and I started seeing this name come up over and over again, and I didn't recognize it. And I was like, oh, that's really weird. I wonder if that's where the Jewish lineage comes from. So I had a second cousin with this name, and I had contacted them. Well, it turns out my mother had a different father, and it was a shock, shock to everybody. It was a secret that nobody knew. It was a secret my grandma and my grandfather had kept. My grandfather met my grandma when she was three months pregnant, fell in love with my grandma, decided to, you know, raise the baby, my mom as his own. My mom was in her 60s at the time, and it was devastating because my grandpa was my hero. And I'm like, oh my gosh. And so I realized in 2017, my DNA isn't what I thought it was. And so I found out who these people were. Um, I met them over the phone. I met my aunts over the phone, and I realized, wow, I have so much in common with these people. Because when I was growing up, I always kind of joked with my mom that I always thought I was adopted because my mom's side is very country. They come from Colorado, they were ranchers, and my my dad's side was very Mormon. And I didn't fit into either of those. I grew up here in Tacoma by Seattle in the 90s. I was a grunger, I love rock music. I went to concerts and I was like, I don't fit into this side and this side. And so when I found out my mom had a different dad, it was like, oh my gosh, I have I have a lot of in common with this family. My aunts and uncles at the time, they grew up in the San Francisco area. So they were part of the Haight Ashbury district area. They went to concerts, they were, you know, into rock. And I'm like, oh my gosh, I have this deep connection genetically. And it really kind of freaked me out because before when I had done the egg donation, ancestry wasn't a big thing. People weren't finding out who their parents were. Well, when 2017, when I found out my mom had a different dad, it really rocked my world. And I thought, oh my gosh, what if my children that I had done the egg donation for, what if they do this DNA test and they find out they have a different mom? Because I had left mine open to, you know, I could be contacted. But most of the time the fertility clinic said that it's anonymous. So basically the moms have these children and they never say that they were part of an egg donation. And so they would never really know unless they did their DNA. And in 2017, I had contacted the fertility clinic and I said, Hey, you know, I just want to let you guys know I did my DNA. I found out I have a different grandfather. I have a whole different lineage than I even thought I was part of this group. They're called Russian German, German Russians. Um, so they're this community that came from Germany that moved into Russia, but they never lost their identity. And so I didn't have any of that. And so I kind of updated my genetics. I said, Well, what are you guys gonna do with the fertility clinic? I said, What are you guys gonna do? I said, Because this is a big thing. I said, What if these children someday do their DNA and they find out they have a totally different parent or a different mother than they even were told? And they weren't like, Oh, it's not a big deal, you know, this isn't a big thing. And I was like, Well, this is really highly concerning because I said it really kind of destroyed my family, it really rocked my mom to find out she had a different dad. Um, and then me personally to find out that I have all these traits with somebody that I didn't even know. And I said, This is a big deal, and and so they just kind of like brushed it off.
SPEAKER_01Wow, very dismissive, very dismissive.
SPEAKER_00Just kind of went along with my life, but just really not happy with kind of the response I'd got. I ended up doing 23andMe because at the time I thought I would love to find my children someday. So I decided to do another DNA database to see someday if these children ever do their DNA if they could find me if because I'm very open to it. I have five kids, all same mom, same dad. I've been very open about my donation. My children know that they have other siblings out there in the world. I've been very open with my family about it, and I just really kind of felt like now I had this connection, like I really would want to know my children someday if they come looking for me.
SPEAKER_01And so were you, you know, from the time you were donating back, say in like the mid-aughts, like oh six on, were you always thinking about them, or did did you kind of forget about the fact that you had donated eggs for a while, or what what was that like?
SPEAKER_00No, as a mom, you don't ever forget. So I always remembered, yeah. Every year I'd kind of remember kind of when the year I the month I conceived, or not conceived, I donated. I would think of them a lot. I would think about what are my kids look like. My children are very beautiful, they're very artistic. I'm an artist, but they all have different parts of me. I always thought about them. Like, I wonder what they're like, I wonder if they look like my kids, I wonder if they have the same personality. It really kind of hit me that these are my kids. And before when I was doing the egg donation in the beginning, it wasn't like that. It was different.
SPEAKER_01Did you tell the clinic that you were open to being contacted when you I did, yeah.
SPEAKER_00I did.
SPEAKER_01Was that when you reached back out or in the beginning, or do you remember?
SPEAKER_00In the beginning I did it. Um, and then in 2017, when I contacted them again, I said I absolutely, you know, I updated my information. I had moved, I said this is my information, I'd love to be contacted if possible. And they just kind of really kind of brushed it off. So I always wanted to be contacted, I guess.
SPEAKER_01Did you find out if the recipient parents got pregnant?
SPEAKER_00I did. So I found out that there was two out of the three different donations, there were two births. So there's two. I have two children in the world somewhere, probably 19 and 20. I was always hoping that when they turned 18, they would do their DNA test. So I've been waiting for like two years.
SPEAKER_01Did they tell you which ones had the kids or and did you ask this when you called back?
SPEAKER_00No, so they just recently told me that. So they when I called back in 2017, they didn't tell me about it. They didn't give me that information. They didn't tell me if any of the transfers were successful. Recently, in the last month or so, I had contacted the clinic again, updated my information again, and they finally told me. So they kept that information to themselves. They didn't give me that information.
SPEAKER_01So you asked them point blank?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I did. I said, Can you please tell me how many if there were any live births? And they told me there were two, two out of the three. Yeah. But in the past, they were very not open about that. It's funny because I went on the website not too long ago on their website to see kind of what you know, what the process is for egg donation. And now it's very different. They talk about because of DNA testing, that everything there's it really isn't anything anonymous anymore. They've really shifted gears.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, it makes me think that they must think of people like us uh very differently. They probably don't want to deal with people like us because it's so awkward now that this isn't so anonymous anymore.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I feel like, but I really kind of feel like I was used. Used is the word. I feel like the gift I gave, it was kind of like I was just, I don't know. Like it wasn't, I wasn't as important as I should have been to the clinic. It was more about the recipients are the most important thing, and it's like, but really we are, you know, we're giving the life, we're giving this ability, and we're really kind of like indisposable, like we're not the ones that are important in the situation.
SPEAKER_01So yeah, I understand that feeling. And having you describe the catalog they had you look at, yeah. I don't know. That's a weird thing, too. Did you said there were no pictures? Did they did they take your picture? Were they no?
SPEAKER_00They didn't they didn't take my picture. If they did, they didn't put it in the catalog. I don't remember them taking my picture, but I just remember there was no pictures in the catalog. Um it was all anonymous, so they didn't want the recipient to know who the donor was. They didn't want the donor to know who the recipient was. And so there was no, like they they had my eye color, you know, hair color, height, weight, all that kind of information, but that was basically all that I was. I wasn't a person, I was just these descriptions. When I had mentioned that I thought that lady was, you know, my recipient. When I went back to get my blood work done, they're like, oh no, no, no, no. We never do that. We don't want you to know who they are, we don't want them to know who you are. And so it's always time delayed. And there was like, there was no way, like my characteristics. Like, I'm six foot, I've got definitely dark hair, dark eyes, like very thin. I was very thin at the time, and I was like, this woman looks just like me, just a different woman. And and so they it's almost like they lied to me. You confronted them at that time, and you said because she looked so mean, she just looked really mean. I was like, really uncomfortable. I mean, I know everybody is in a different, you know, like maybe she was having a bad day or whatever, but she just did not look like a nice person, and it really made me feel really uncomfortable. I was like, Oh my gosh, like what if she's the mother of this child? Like, how are they gonna be raised? Is she gonna be resentful? Because, you know, I had read some things about egg donation and mothers that were not able to have their own eggs really kind of angry, you know, and like I have to have this baby by somebody else or something. I don't know. And so that's just kind of like the feeling that I got. And so I was just like, what if she's mean to this child for the rest of their life, like just because it's not their child? And so, yeah, it's just very weird. But the fact that she said, Oh no, no, no, you know, there's no way we don't ever do it like that. But I was like, There's no way, I've never seen a woman that looks just like me sitting in the waiting room like that. It had to be her, you know.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, she was probably covering up the fact that they had made a mistake. I can understand how you feel because say I had walked into the sperm bank and there was an older guy in there who maybe looked like me or maybe didn't. I don't know. They didn't talk about that much with me. That would have been really awkward because he would have been say, if he was there with his wife, he would have been looking at me like, oh, this is the guy who is fertile. I'm not. There could be some jealousy in there, is what I I think.
SPEAKER_00Right. That's exactly what I felt. I felt like there was this bitter jealousy. Absolutely. That's the feeling I got. Yeah. So before that situation, for the first two, I was really open. I tell people, yeah, I'm donating my eggs and helping these people. I have, you know, a child. I think this is awesome. You should think about this, you know, whatever. And after that situation, I never did it again. I was just like, no, I just don't feel like this is the right thing to do. I don't know if they've changed the procedures. I don't know if now like you're able to meet the recipients and the donors. I know I listened to Emily's um podcast, and she was able, she was lucky enough to do that. But that would have been, I think it made me feel a little bit easier, less yeah, nervous about it if I would have been able to meet the recipients. But at the same time, I think my mindset completely changed. Yeah. Yeah, because I'm like, that's really my child and what's gonna happen, you know, in the future.
SPEAKER_01So did you talk to your mom about this?
SPEAKER_00I did, yeah. My mom was really she was really positive. She was she was positive about it because she always supported me, but at the same time, she was like, But you have other kids in the world. So this is what my mom had said. She's like, because I had other kids later, um, after these donations, they're like, What if that recipient or that child meets one of your children? And what if they start dating? And she was just she brought up all these red flags. She was like, Isn't that gonna be bad? And I'm like, Oh my gosh, mom, you're right. And things that I I didn't think about because at the time I I'd only planned on ever having two kids. I didn't plan on having five, and so I didn't think it'd be a big deal. But after she had said that, it was like, oh my gosh, what if you're right? But she was, I mean, she was really supportive in the beginning, but at the same time, she brought up a lot of the questions that I didn't have that were really logical. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01That's good. She's probably a little wiser at a few more hours to have thought about those things. What about you know, you said that early on you would tell people about this because you were excited or proud about it after that third time and you stopped doing it. Did you still bring it up to people or have you kept this more to yourself?
SPEAKER_00With no, I've always been open about it. I don't, I mean, it's not like definitely a not a conversation starter, but you know, I've I've met friends and you know, I've told them I've done that. And I I'm very proud of what I've done, but I don't encourage people to do it anymore. I have a daughter that's 21, and she wants to be an egg donor. For years, you know, I had talked about this positive aspect of it, and she thought, well, you know, I'm your daughter, I can do it. I think my daughter's thinking more of the monetary value of it, and I'm really nervous. I told her I just I don't think it's a good idea. I'm being completely honest with her. I've I given her all the things I kind of went through, and she's kind of she's leaning more towards being an egg donor. Kind of makes me a little sad because I remember myself in early 20s and I I was naive to really the whole everything about it. Um, and now that I I I'm wiser and I've seen you know what happened with my mom, finding out she had a different dad was devastating. It was devastating for my mom, it was devastating for me, it was devastating for my whole family, and and I just I don't know, but she's very strong-minded and I she she really wants to do it, and so I have to support her, but at the same time, I'm really kind of like very in her ear about hey, what about this? What about that? You know, because I haven't found any of my children. So I've I'm on two different databases and I've never found any of my um egg donation children. So it's it's sad because like someday I'd really love to meet them. And in the back of my mind, I guess I've always been hopeful that the recipients would be honest with their children, especially now that DNA is is so common. Like you can't keep secrets anymore. And like people kept secrets for hundreds of years, and and now it's you know, the truth comes out and it's devastating, absolutely devastating.
SPEAKER_01So you know. Have you been really direct with your daughter about your feelings that you're going through with your, you know, some of your feelings of regret, or yeah, I am, yeah.
SPEAKER_00I I I am absolutely she's in college and she thinks it would help her, you know, help pay for college or whatever. I said it's not about the money, Kaylee. You know, her daughter, my daughter's name is Kaylee, and I said it's more about this is a life, this is your child that's gonna be in the world. And I'm supportive of her, but at the same time, it makes me really nervous because I don't know. I don't know if she's gonna regret it in 20 years, like I do. I mean, I can't say I regret it, but at the same time, I I know I was more naive than I am now about the whole process. The fact that, you know, like these, these, these are our children. We are their biological moms and dads. And I know some people don't think about that, but it's like they're part of us. They carry our characteristics, they can carry our personalities, they can carry our interests. And and if you don't know who you are, it's a huge deal. I mean, when I found out my grandfather wasn't my grandfather, and and I had this whole other side of the family, I found a piece of myself that I didn't know existed. And I'm like, oh my god, this is crazy. And it's like, and so it really makes me feel like you know, makes me sad if children or people grow up not knowing where they really come from. Oh yeah, of course, or doing a DNA test and being shocked. I mean, that's devastating. If you think your mother was your mother, and then you do, oh, I just want to randomly see what my DNA was and find out you have a completely different mother. I mean, how devastating is that?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and I know about that from experience directly. Um, so what are the ways you've made yourself available besides contacting the clinic and updating your contact information?
SPEAKER_00On my bios for 23ME and Ancestry, I put my donor number. So I was Tracy315 at the Pacific Pacific Northwest Fertility Clinic, and so I'm very open about that. If for some reason somebody does their DNA and they find out parent, it's already out there. So I'm very open to be contacted. I would love to be contacted someday, you know, absolutely. But that's basically all I've done. Uh, like I said, is I I've updated my information through the fertility clinic. And so if for some reason they go back through them and want my contact information, they've got my email, they've got my phone number, so they can contact me.
SPEAKER_01Are you on so you're on 23andMe Ancestry DNA? And are you on donor sibling registry?
SPEAKER_00I'm not on donor sibling registry, not the website itself, yeah, just on the Facebook group.
SPEAKER_01That's a good idea to put your donor number and fertility clinic on there. I hadn't thought of that. I I could do that as well.
SPEAKER_00Because that's the you know, so if they keep the paperwork, you know, they get a copy of my bio and everything. And so that's kind of what I was always known of is you know, Tracy315. I've got five amazing kids, they're all different, but they're all pieces of me, and it's really, really cool. And yeah, I'd just love to meet my children someday.
SPEAKER_01Have you prepared yourself for like what you would say? Like, okay, so say one of your kids signs up on 23andMe, and they appear all of a sudden, and you see you've got uh a son or a daughter on 23andMe. Do you have a plan? Do you know what you're gonna do? What's your plan?
SPEAKER_00So, so I am a documentary fanatic. So I watched so many different shows, like Who Do You Think You Are or Finding Your Roots, or Secret Lives. This happens a lot. There was a lot of lying in the past, and so when people do their genetics or their DNA, they find out they are have different people that were adopted and whatnot. And so I watched a lot about different people that have gone through these different circumstances. Egg donation. I watched one about two twin girls that found out that they were conceived by an egg donor and they found their mother in Portland. So I definitely have prepared myself. I don't have no speech right now or anything like that, but I'm definitely open. Yes, I donated and I've thought about it a lot. It's funny because it's kind of like always in the back of my mind. One day I'm just gonna open up my ancestry. I'm gonna find out my child's on there.
SPEAKER_01And how often do you check?
SPEAKER_00Once a week.
unknownOkay.
SPEAKER_00The unfortunate thing about finding out I had a different grandfather is he denied it. My grandfather's denied it to the day he died. He wouldn't see my mom, he didn't acknowledge my mom. It was horrible. It was absolutely horrible that he rejected her. And so I've always kind of really thought about it, you know, like I could have that happen in the future. Like the when I found out that my mom possibly could have a different dad, I remember going through staying up for until like three o'clock in the morning and looking at all the people that I was uh related to, because it says second, third, and fourth cousins. And I remember looking for my mom's last name over and over and over again, and there was nobody. And I'm like, this is crazy, there's no way. Like my mom is definitely my grandfather's child. And and then the fact that they still to this day won't acknowledge that they really are my family, it's devastating. It's heartbreaking because I, you know, I'm like, but I'm part of you, I'm part of your family, I'm part of your DNA, and and it's it's heartbreaking. And so I've really kind of you know been open to know that that is a possibility, that I could be rejected someday, but I'm also hopeful that somebody be willing to to find me and and be open to finding me and and you know, not necessarily that we'll have a relationship. I would love a relationship with my children, absolutely a hundred percent. But if that doesn't happen, I I understand, but there's a lot in nature versus nurture, and there's a lot in nature that these children are us, and that they need to know where they come from because it opened up my whole life when I found out I was somebody different.
SPEAKER_01What would you tell a donor-conceived person who's listening to this podcast and they're on the fence about the idea of meeting their donor or they're not sure that they I say go for it 100% go for it because you never know the the parts that you can f that you can find in your DNA in your in your biological moms or your biological dads.
SPEAKER_00I would say go for it. Um I know it's terrifying, but you find a piece of yourself in them, you know, you do, and and to know where you come from is a big deal. It's a huge deal. But when you find the truth, it really kind of does set you free. Uh, you know, it's kind of generic or whatever, but it's true. Yeah, but at the same time, it it it would it would probably break my heart if I found out that somebody didn't if they rejected me. But you know, I understand both ways, so. Doing my DNA, it it really, really opened my eyes. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01You said doing your own DNA?
SPEAKER_00Doing my own DNA. Yeah. Finding out that I had a different family. It really opened my eyes that oh my gosh, I really come from these people. Like this makes sense. Like I always thought I was adopted. I'm like, there's no way I don't understand. I don't fit into this side of the family. I don't fit into this side of the family. Like, where do I come from? I'm not an ultra Mormon and I'm not I'm not into like cowboy boots and you know, like ranching and and and it's weird because it's with my cousins because I have so many cousins on both sides of my family that they all kind of fit in. I always felt like I was different. And like my mom and dad, they moved away from Utah. Like I was born in Utah, and we live in the Pacific Northwest. And so I thought, well, maybe it's because I live up here, maybe it's because I'm different, but it's like, no, parts of me make sense now. So I honestly just what I would like to tell people is if they were donor recipient, they need to be honest because sooner or later they are gonna find out, um, or they could feel like they don't belong. And I think no matter how old they are, I think they need to know they have the right to know. I think everybody has the right to know where they come from. I would really hope that people would think about this and and and finally tell that secret because it's it's a big deal. And and then for them to find out on accident, like if they were like me, like, oh, I just want to do my DNA, not you know, not knowing that their mom really isn't their mother, it could be life-altering. It absolutely could.
SPEAKER_01Oh, yeah. Absolutely.
SPEAKER_00I just really feel like people really need to be honest about it.
SPEAKER_01Do you have anything about the clinic that you wish they would be doing differently um today?
SPEAKER_00Like how Yeah, I think they've changed their process now, but with people in the past, like with my situation, I think I think they need to be more open to counseling or to contacting people, like, hey, by the way, we just want to let you know, you know, you did this egg donation or sperm donation 15 years ago or 20 years ago or 30 years ago or whatever. And you know, maybe you should really think about telling your child that, you know, this is kind of how they were conceived. And I don't think they think about those kids in the past. Part of your identity is your DNA. And when people don't feel like they fit in, kids always know that. You know, you do you have this gut instinct, like something's not right, and you just can't put your finger on it. And so you always wonder, you always wonder until it when you do find out the truth, it's like, oh my god, I was lied to all these years. Why didn't they tell me?
SPEAKER_01So it sounds like that's what a where a lot of your guilt that your kids are going through that right now. And is it that you're not able to help them?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, because I would love to tell them where they come from, have them meet me. I would love to, you know, see if we even look alike, or I don't have a lot of uh medical conditions in my family, so I'm really lucky. There are heart issues in my mom's side of the family. My mom died of a heart attack. I have a couple of aunts and uncles that have died, passed away from heart issues, and so I know that's in there. And so I'm very proactive about my heart. But if somebody doesn't know that, like what if these one of these kids have a heart issue that they don't know about, you know, or I mean, do you feel a sense of the fact that your kids were raised by other people?
SPEAKER_01I mean, yeah, what's that feeling like when you think about that as a donor?
SPEAKER_00Makes me feel uncomfortable because they are your children, because you don't know how they were raised, hoping that they had a good life and hoping that they were treated right. There are my kids. I feel this like hole in my heart. I feel like a part of me is still not here because I don't know who they are. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Of course. Yeah, they don't this the clinics don't put that in their marketing. They don't people like your daughter right now who's thinking about it. No, yeah, because if if they were playing your voice and the voices of other donors about how they feel about this decision 20 years later, they were required to counsel potential donors about those feelings. They probably wouldn't have many donors.
SPEAKER_00No, absolutely. And and I think when you're in your early 20s, I don't think you think about that. They really need to tell people, well, in 20 years from now, you might feel differently, or when you have your own kids, you might feel differently, or because when you're young and naive, it's like I'm grown, I know how to make these choices. And it's like, no, but you don't really understand because I didn't, you know, and I thought I did, I thought I knew you what I was doing. And then 20 years later, I regret it. I almost regret it. I don't regret it because I gave life and I knew I was supposed to do that, but at the same time, like I don't think I was fully aware of what I was doing.
SPEAKER_01This idea that you're giving a part of yourself away. I mean, especially you would know this as a mother, you know, like you get to raise your own kids, and there's probably so much benefit.
SPEAKER_00My 21-year-old, she's just like me. I mean, she looks so my kids are half Hispanic. I'm not Hispanic, she looks like a Mexican version of me. She's so much like me. There's so many things about her that like I never told her, like I was into fashion when I was younger, and she's so into fashion, but yeah, and like vintage shopping. I loved vintage clothes, and and she's so into that, and she's so much like me. I know a lot of it comes from the DNA. I mean, it's definitely not all from me raising her, but raising her gives me this peace of mind. Like, I know how she's raised. I know my kids are all a piece of me, and I could see it in them. And it's like these other kids are pieces of me too. Hope one day they find out the truth and they find out who their mom really is and can find pieces of themselves that they didn't know existed.
SPEAKER_01Do you tell your kids that that you have certain things in common with them? Like the fashion and that, oh, okay, you talk about that.
SPEAKER_00I do, yeah. And they're like, No, mom, it's just me. And I'm like, Yeah, you don't know. I'm like, you are so much like me, and they're, you know, they're young. My oldest son is 24, and then my daughter's 21, and then got kids down from there, but they are all a piece of me and a like me. And they're like, No, mom. And I'm like, Yeah, you really are.
SPEAKER_01Tell you something funny that my mom said to me a couple of years ago. She said, You were always interested in just so many things. You liked this topic and that topic, and there were just all sorts of things I was interested in. And that's all she said over the two or three years since she told me that. I've been noticing how my mom is so much like that. And I'm 49.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01And here I am in my late 40s, discovering what my mother is like. Right.
SPEAKER_00No, really, even from my own mom. You know, she's passed away now, but there's so many pieces of me that I'm like finding out from my aunts and uncles with my mom, you know, how she was when she was younger. And oh my god, that's so much like my mom. And you know, because when you become a mom, you just kind of like put those things in the past. You don't tell them everything, and then oh my god, I get that from my mother. Like, I'm my mom had talked about when she was really young. She wanted to like find out about ancient history, like um, Egyptian history. I'm so into that now. And I didn't realize that was part of my mom. I wonder if I got that from her because it's like I wasn't raised like that. I didn't wasn't raised up, you know, around Egyptian culture or whatever. And it's just like the ancient history, it very much ancient stuff. And I'm like, oh my god, I get that from my mother or other things. And I'm like, I get that from my mother, and and then I see that other things in my grandparents and my, you know, like, oh my god, I get that for my grandparents. It goes way back.
SPEAKER_01I think back to my 20s, and you know, because we're asking a lot of people, like you and I and your daughter, to make a decision in their 20s about something you really don't understand. And I guess a lot of people have kids in their 20s and they don't really understand the full implications of it. But what's different is you have a chance to raise that kid yourself, and then that kid has a chance to see themselves reflected in their parents as they're growing up. And you're asking these clinics are asking people to make a decision to give a part of themselves away, but the donors can't really understand at that age the significance of what they're doing. I think that's what I struggle with now. I I wish that I and several other past donors could put together a program for these clinics that would like counsel and explain to donors what they're doing, what they're actually doing. It's not just like they're giving this amazing gift to someone else, and oh, you're smart or you got good genes or whatever it is, you know, all these things, these compliments that they're these workers are pouring on these donors to get them in the door and then giving them money. It'd be nice if there was like that other educational component of it.
SPEAKER_00No, absolutely. I I I a hundred percent agree with you because they don't. They didn't for me, and I don't honestly think that they do that. I mean, I think their goal is to create life for the recipient, but the donors kind of like were not important. I don't think they make you aware of everything that you're like what you're doing. I feel like we were used. Even for sperm donors, I do not think the monetary value equals what we do. There's no way. I mean, we're giving life, we're giving away a piece of ourselves. Yes, it's nice you get some money, but at the same time, it's it doesn't equal what we do. I mean, we are valuable people.
SPEAKER_01So much of the impact comes much later, you know. So you've gotta think. I know you're going through this right now, and I'm going through it. And a lot of people, a lot of past donors are like, How am I gonna handle this situation? How am I gonna communicate with people? What do I testing websites? Do I go to? You gotta educate yourself. Yeah, think about all these parties, you know, your spouses, your own kids, your the recipient parents, the donor conceived people. I feel bewildered by the whole thing ever since this happened, you know. Yeah. The time I don't feel like it was a big impact on me. It's much different from for a sperm donor. I did I wasn't dating anyone at the time. It was not probably a huge deal, but the work is all now for me, you know.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, no, absolutely. It's all now, it's all in the future. It is it's scary that we have this responsibility now that it's being put on us, especially if the parents don't tell them and they just uh happen to do a DNA test, then that was really put on you. And yeah, like what do you say to these people? Like, what do you say to your own? They're your own children. I mean, we are their moms and dads to an extent. We have a huge responsibility, like yeah, it is it's hard to know what to say.
SPEAKER_01I think the donor sibling registry, I think Wendy Kramer had come up with some advice about like what do you say to someone as a donor if you realize that they're your child and you meet online and they might not know. So I think I use that as a starting point because yeah, one of my kids got online and didn't know, and it was a total shock to him. So here I'm like all excited, and then I think he's like not excited, you know. Like, what is happening? Like, you're not my dad, like I have a dad. I ended up finding out that he was not told at all, and then I kept it a secret for a while after he found out from me. And it was a real big challenge for him, and he was really struggling because he was hiding it from everybody. He ended up reaching out to me, and we worked through it, and I encouraged him to just break the news to his mom and to his other people he was close to because he I was the first person he talked to about it, and this was over a year after he took the test and I first introduced myself. In a, you know, I didn't introduce myself like, oh my god, I'm your dad. You know, it was more like it was more like, hey, I don't know if if you're aware of why we're connected genetically. I was a sperm donor in this year. Um, I hope this isn't a surprise, but if it is, please take your time. It was more like along those lines, you know, and just telling them you can always reach out to me. But the worry that comes after that first message, and it's not just about being rejected, because that's definitely a part of it, what you're saying, um, that fear about that, but it's also the worry of is he okay right now? Because this has got to be really crazy for him. And I'm like, I'm the only one dealing with this. Like, why isn't the clinic who created all this? Why aren't they stepping in and letting recipient parents know that this is crazy, they're doing it the wrong way, you know? Right. That feels a little burdensome to me sometimes, you know. I but I want to be there for him, so it's not like I don't, you know, so I'm happy to do it. I feel good about that. I feel good about taking the courageous steps that no one else can seem to take. But you don't, I don't think then as a donor, after the fact, you're like given a lot of credit either.
SPEAKER_00For what we did, I mean, what we did was it's amazing what we did, but at the same time, I think the fertility clinic has a responsibility that they need to step in. They really need to do something and contact people. Counseling, they need to do something because the burden is now, like you said, it's put on us. Not that it's a bad thing, but it it's a it's stressful. It's it's it's hard. It's and and like you said, is like, how did they feel about it when you gave up the information? It's like it's devastating, you know. Like, are they okay? Like, how are they gonna understand, you know, deal with this now? Like, is it gonna change who they are or is it gonna change how they feel? And the fertility clinics need to take more responsibility because they're the ones that are doing it. I mean, they are the ones that are putting people together, they're the ones that are creating life, and then for them to kind of wash their hands of it and say, okay, now it's done. And it's like, no, no, no, no, it's not done because there's so much not at all. And and who knows, it could take 10 more years or 15 more years, and then where are you then? And you know, I'm I'm thankful that I was open with my own children, like I kept that, you know, open to them. So they always know that they have other siblings out there. But what if I didn't? You know what I mean? What if, you know, I didn't tell my kids and and then they find out, oh my god, I have another sibling. It's like I just don't feel like that's right. I feel like the right thing to do is to be open. I think if people are able to conceive via fertility, you know, egg and sperm donation, that those people need to be open and honest with their children because it's gonna bite them in the butt sooner or later, and and it's gonna be so much worse. Yeah. My my grandma even said she regretted not telling my mother she had a different father. And she my grandma was in her 80s and she said, I should have done that. You know, I just didn't know how to do it. And I think if fertility clinics took the initiative to counsel recipients and say, hey, look, you know, technology is different. You can't keep this a secret anymore. This is ways that you can go about telling your child. I think that's what they should do. I think they need to be open about that. I think that needs to be part of the process, counseling recipients on how to tell your children that they are not biologically yours.
SPEAKER_01I just really hope that your kids appear someday and hope it's a really positive encounter for for you. I I hope that they feel very lucky to have you as their biological mother.
SPEAKER_00So thank you. You too. I think I think we're really special people. I think what we've done is we've given life. It's terrifying. I want to find my children someday. I just hope it's a positive experience.
SPEAKER_01I understand. Well, thank you so much for doing this interview, Tracy. And you'll have to keep me posted. I'd love to love to hear an update, and I'm sure listeners would as well.
SPEAKER_00Thank you so much for doing what you do because you're you're putting this light on a subject that people don't want to talk about. It's important that we tell our stories, and it's important that say your children listen to this someday, you know, that they can understand you in a different way and maybe understand their story in a different way, and then maybe be more open to it.
SPEAKER_01If you're listening to this podcast and are a past egg or sperm donor and would like to share your story so that others can learn from your experience, please send me an email at donor moms and dads at gmail.com. Thanks for listening.